ZioNation - Progressive Zionism and Israel Web Log

ZioNation home Archives Site map Policy Definitions FAQ timeline history documents Links Anti-Semitism inside Prisons Contact

Articles and Reference

History of Zionism and Israel
Middle East Encyclopedia
History of Anti-Semitism
History of Anti-Zionism
Encylopedic Dictionary of Zionism and Israel
Zionism and its Impact
Zionism - Issues & answers
Maps of Israel
Six Day War
War of Independence
Bible  Quotes
1948 Israel War of Independence Timeline Christian Zionism
Christian Zionism History
Gaza & the Qassam Victims of Sderot
Zionist Quotes
Learn Hebrew
Israel Boycott?
Boycott Israel?
Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel
Jew Hate
International Zionism
Commentary in Russian
Middle East
The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin Al Husseini
Albert Einstein
Palestine: Ethnic Cleansing
History Arab-Israeli Conflict
Boycott Israel?
Amnesty International Report on Gaza War

Subscribe to
email newsletter for this site and others

Powered by groups.yahoo.com

About 195 persons are known to have been murdered in the terror attack in Mumbai India. Of these, at least eight were killed in the Chabad ("Nariman House") center. Four of the dead thus far have been identified as Israelis or Israeli Americans, including young Rabbi Gabi Holtzberg and his wife Rivka. The dead include Indians killed at random, Americans and British citizens who were singled out by the terrorists. According to Indian authorities, the death toll may rise to 350.

The attack has all the trademarks of Al-Qaeda, and was claimed by a group called the Deccan Mujahedeen. Was this the "surprise" hinted at in earlier Al-Qaeda communications?

Al Qaeda attacks always have messages and purposes at several levels. At one level, this attack carries the usual message, "You never know where we will hit next. Nobody is immune." Westerners and Jews were murdered in Mumbai, India. It fulfills the bastardized Quranic verse "And you shall kill them wherever you find them," taken out of context by all the modern Mujahedin Jihadi crazies and used as a slogan.

At a tactical level, Al-Qaeda is no doubt delighted to stir up trouble between the moderate government of Pakistan and India, and to open a second front for Pakistan versus India. If they can succeed in doing that, they will make the West into the enemy of Pakistan and make it impossible for NATO to fight Al-Qaeda bases in Pakistan. They are quite happy as well, to gain credit in Pakistan as champions of the Pakistani cause against India, and to cause Indian Muslim extremists to look to Al-Qaeda for leadership.

Of course, there is the Jewish angle. The real goal of Al-Qaeda should be clear to everyone: to take power from Muslim regimes they consider to be heretical, Takfir, and to use that power as a basis for world dominion. But it serves their cause to divert attention to Israel and the Jews. The United States was attacked on 9-11-01 because it supports the Saudi government that Osama Bin Laden wishes to supplant. But after the fact, Al-Qaeda added rhetoric about Palestine as well, to gain the popular support of the Muslim masses. Al-Qaeda may not know, and probably does not care, that the Chabad are a non-Zionist Chassidic sect. There just might be yet another angle. In the back our minds, we cannot forget that the Hezbollah and their masters in Tehran still "owe us" for the untimely demise of Hezbollah terrorist Imad Moughnieh. Previously, they avenged the killing of Hezbollah leader Abbas al Mussawi by the terror bombing of the AMIA Jewish center in Buenos Aires.

Condemnation of the attacks was nearly universal. This should not be remarkable, but it is. Terror attacks in Israel are often greeted by much of the world with indifference, calls for "understanding" or condemnation of Israel for violation of the "rights" of the terrorists and their organizations. In principle, there is not the slightest difference between the "militants" of the Hamas, the Hezbollah, the Popular Resistance Committees of Gaza, the 9-11 criminals, those who bombed the London underground, the "fighters" (as al-Jazeera calls them) of the Taleban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and those in Iraq, and the demented criminal terrorists who carried out these attacks in Mumbai. It doesn't matter what drivel they use to rationalize their bloodthirsty and demoniacal quest for power. For that matter, the Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden are not much different. They simply dispensed with the formal tedium of explanations. They want money and power, which is what they all want. Those who support them or justify them, however well-meaning, are accomplices after the fact in murder. Worse, they are contributing to the destabilization of civilization. It is taking the world a long time to learn this lesson. After 9-11, there were still terror groupies who subscribed to the demented thesis of Professor Terry Eagleton who claimed suicide bombers are really altruists acting out a kind of theater. After the attacks in the London underground, some of those voices were silenced. The current attacks were condemned even by CAIR, the American Muslim advocacy organization. Al-Jazeera outdid itself, at least in English, and referred to the terrorists as "militants" rather than as "fighters," the term they use for Iraqi and AFghani terrorists.

Even the dullest intellects understand that we are faced with an an egregious manifestation of human barbarism in Mumbai. Those who are not struck dumb feel compelled to comment. Human nature being what it is, some of the comments are wise, more are banal, and some are hysterical or harmful. Some part of what everyone says is bound to be off the mark. It will be many years before the twenty first century terror phenomenon is put in proper perspective, and even then, like the Holocaust it will be poorly understood and poorly explained.

Inevitably there is a chorus of those who insist that we must "understand" the motives of the Mumbai terrorists rather than seeking revenge, and that we must attempt "dialog" with them. There is nothing to understand. Ordinary and decent people are incapable of understanding sociopaths and psychopaths who are interested in money and power, and who brainwash others into committing atrocities in the name of religious fanaticism. And if we understood, what good would it do? The important thing to "understand" about Hitler and his followers is that they had to be wiped out. We do not seek revenge. We seek self-preservation. Everyone who has a legitimate grievance should be heard. As soon as they start spraying people with bullets in the streets or blowing themselves up in subways or restaurants, they have no more legitimate grievances - only the decent people of the world have a legitimate grievance against them, and must act in self defense. "And you shall kill them wherever you find them," is indeed, the only way to handle such people.

A second group wants to blame Islam and the Quran and all Muslims for the crimes of those who abuse Islam and the Quran. Of course, Muslims who make excuses for terrorism and terrorists, those who legitimize it, and those who idolize Osama Bin Laden or support the Hamas share in the blame. But we cannot blame all Muslims for these atrocities any more than all Christians are to blame for the Crusades, or all Jews or Zionists are to blame for the senseless violence against Palestinians.

With less wisdom and accuracy than passion, some Jews have complained that media coverage of the Mumbai events omitted to mention the attack on Chabad house. I have examined a large number of reports including these:

Al-Jazeera - http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2008/11/2008112932042411923.html mentions that 5 Israelis were killed and describes an attack on the Jewish Center, "Nariman House"

China - Xinhua http://xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/28/content_10424548.htm mentions blasts in "Nariman House" and notes that there are Israelis in the Trident hotel, but doesn't mention Chabad.

India - Sify News - http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14808272 had an extensive report on the murder of rabbi Holtzberg and is his, which opened:

The bodies of an Israeli rabbi and his wife were among the five bodies found by Indian commandoes at the Jewish centre of Nariman House here on Friday evening after a fierce gunbattle with terrorists.

The National Security Guards (NSG) found the bodies in the five-storey Nariman House or Chabad House on Friday evening.

India - http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14808272 reported:

PTI - Mumbai, Nov 28 (PTI) The terror war on Mumbai was on the verge of ending tonight with security forces securing the 5-star Oberoi hotel and a Jewish Centre but a lone gunman continued to hold out inside the Taj hotel at the end of pitched combat that left 30 hostages dead.

At the Centre, a residential complex housing a prayer hall, commandos were air dropped from helicopters in first such operation in urban India the security forces spent the entire day to clear it. Two terrorists were killed but not before five of the hostages were eliminated by them.

A clean-up operation was still on late tonight at the Centre where the victims reportedly included the Rabbi and his wife.

Likewise, all the following mentioned the rabbi and or the Jewish center:

There were some stories that focused exclusively on the Jewish center, while others were exclusively about non-Jewish local persons who were killed. When hundreds of people are murdered, it is absurd to insist that all attention should be focused on the Jews. It is absurd and it is unwise, because that, after all, is exactly the impression that al-Qaeda wants to leave - that it is about "Jews." It is not about Jews, any more than Nazism was "about Jews." This attack is about India first and foremost. It is a tragedy for India and Mumbai. All the terror attacks are attacks on civilization. Don't let them distract us from the big picture.

Ami Isseroff

Original content is Copyright by the author 2008. Posted at ZioNation-Zionism and Israel Web Log, https://zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000632.html where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Disributed by ZNN list. Subscribe by sending a message to . Please forward by e-mail with this notice, cite this article and link to it. Other uses by permission only.

Click to Reddit! Facebook Share

add to del.icio.us

Add to digg - digg it

Replies: 3 Comments

Kudos to Pakistani officials! This stage-managed Disinformation Media Campaign/Show in Pakistan goes on to show the utterly dismal state of the NaPak and Namurad State of Pakistan!

The depth, length and breadth to which these Nagarat Eilte and People in Power in Pakistan go to Cheat, Hoodwink and Brainwash their Own Public Highlights, Displays and Showcases the extent and seriousness of their Cheapness and Imorality, and the Vacuum of commonsense that exists in the Gloomy, Bagairat and NaPak Pakistan.

Congatulations You All Pakistanis for and on doomed ocassion of Your Evil Success! Keep up the Demonic Evil Work! You folks are Making very Fast Progress along the Path to Self-Annihilation! Keep doing more and more of this in order to keep Satan and Satan’s followers extremely Happy and Elated at your evil deeds and demonic actions. Wish you Zillions of Years of Cooking by Angels of Your Impoverished, Filthy and Blackened Soul in 1000000000 K degrees of Boiling Sulphur in the Hell! Afterall, all places in rotting Hell are already reserved just for you all after You all Die! Anyway, You all would not have to wait for any long to Die in order to Proceed to hell as You all have been already been Born in the Living Hell that the Wicked State of Parkistan today is.

Mourn and Pity Your BlackHoled Desinty in This World and the Next !!!

HateEvilPakistan HateISIRootofAllEvil, Monday, December 8th

Imagine, if you will, that you are a young Muslim boy who dutifully attends school and the mosque. In your home and amongst your community you hear the repetitious assertions that Muslims should be dominant, and that Allah has designated those of other faiths as subordinate at best or deserving of annihilation at worst.
Yet the disparity between what your teachers tell you and the reality of the world is an unbridgeable chasm. You see in every way that the Muslim world is weak and corrupt, but when you question it you’re provided with simplistic explanations of Jewish conspiracies and satanic tendencies. You are told that it is the fault of the imperialist Christian West and it’s Zionist overlords that Muslims are suffering.
As you grow you realise that what you are being told is blatantly untrue, the abuses are meted out by Muslims. The reality is unbearable. For were you to acknowledge reality then you would have to reject your family and community, as they offer you no accessible middle ground. The solution is to descend into self-deception and allow your intellectual facilities to be perverted to the point that you seek out only the simplistic explanations that salve your troubled soul. The internal turmoil boils over and you externalise it in anger. The daily petty humiliations and frustrations we all experience mount up on each other and as there is only the outlet of your seething anger you direct it there. In the end you arrive at the most simplistic explanation “Were it not for Zionism and the Western Powers all would be well in Islam”.
Israel is the worst part of it all. Here in the small land Allah’s most disdained of people have humiliated the Muslim world by winning all its wars and taking land which Muslims claim as their own. How can it be that these people rejected by God as described in the Quran can humiliate the Muslim in the one sphere that the macho Muslim male society claims as it own, namely the battle field. Every injury the Zionists cause Muslims is magnified in your mind and it fuels your frustration, humiliation and anger. Only the eradication of the Jews can assuage this profound sense of inadequacy.
Your consumption and exploitation of the products and opportunities of the West are simply your due, an inalienable right. You feel no obligation to the West for this. In fact you deny it, everything emanates from Islamic influences. If anything it makes your frustrations and humiliations worse. In response you recite a litany of abuses that Muslims suffer at the hands of the infidel oppressors, rape, sodomy, butchery and murder. It is a chant headed up by the humiliations you feel as a man that you cannot protect your sister, mother, daughter from these profoundly obscene assaults. But deep inside you know that women suffer cruelly at the hands of men in Muslim lands, and so to assuage that shame you pile on the allegations of sexualised abuse of Muslims.
It is comfortable accepting and absorbing the message of fanaticism. It is a comfortable place where you find resolution. It asks only unquestioning faith in return. Progressively you cease to exist as an individual and simply become part of a greater mass wherein your sacrifices can be used to reach out for the objectives. Your anger masks any doubts. You never question why it is that the leaders never place themselves at risk, why they too could not sacrifice themselves. You accept that they are too important and vital for the mission. You never consider that your violence will simply progress the cycle of violence in which Muslims have been losing year after year.
And then one day they simply ask you to sacrifice a little more and you’re ready. The objectives are not people who have rights, they are less than human and by their wilfulness deserving of death. It doesn’t even matter if many of the victims are Muslims. Killing and hating is easy for you, so much easier than facing up to the realities of the world and the realities of the cruelly and obscenely oppressive nature of many Muslim nations.
And so the killing begins………………

Rod Davies, Tuesday, December 2nd

Thanks for your article, and also the research you've done about the reporting of the Mumbai terrorist attack. With respect, I have to take issue with your statements that "there is nothing to understand... And if we understood, what good would it do?"

I've studied the Qur'an and the accepted hadith for several years, and there are significant problems with them - not just with their explicit anti-Semitism, but their declaration of war against all non-Muslims, until we are subject to Islamic (Sharia) Law. What do we expect devout Muslims to make of teachings like these?

Please see a clip of a university professor from the United Arab Emirates speaking on television on the subject of killing all Jews in line with Islam's teachings at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4.

Regarding the teaching of hatred of Jews (and Christians) in Islamic schools in the UK – where Jews are called monkeys, and Christians are called pigs - please see a recent TV report and debate at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=vCAapkJhBHQ.

Now, it is certainly true that most Muslims are unaware of much of the worst of their religion, and it is probable that most Muslims would not act on the murderous teachings even if they knew of them. If the offending verses and hadiths were officially dismissed for one reason or another - e.g. as errors of transcription - there is a case to say that they would not be much of a cause for concern.

However, given that *all* the verses of the Qur'an are currently believed to be valid, the reason for terrorist attacks by such people as *doctors* becomes apparent.

Muslims are of course inherently as decent and intelligent as any other random group of people. The Muslim doctors who attempted mass murder at Glasgow Airport last year were probably kind and caring with their patients. Unfortunately, murderous ideologies can corrupt the best of people. I think that looking at such people as just mindless psychopaths misses the cause of their actions, and hence misses possible solutions.

So, what can be done? From having spoken to many Muslims, my view is that most of them are unaware of much of the worst of their religion, and in particular they are unaware of what Islam's own texts say about their "prophet" Muhammad.

This ignorance has resulted partly from poor literacy, and mostly from the fact that to speak ill of the "prophet" is to invoke an official death sentence under Islamic Law - which understandably hampers free thought and enquiry.

However, I have spoken to several Muslims over the internet - some reasonably learned - and after exposing Muhammad's character to them, they've been shocked.

On Al-Jazeera TV last year Sheikh Ahmad Al Katani, President of The Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, claimed that every year 6 million Muslims leave Islam (see the 3.10 mark at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo&feature=related).

And on March 19 it was reported that Iran’s leadership is considering enforcing executions for apostasy because so many Muslims are leaving Islam - see http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222 - apparently 1 million Iranian Muslims have left Islam in the past 5 years.

Considering how difficult it is for many of us to leave the religion we’ve been raised with (I'm a reluctant atheist), and how *especially difficult* it is for Muslims to leave Islam given Muhammad’s death-threats against those who do, I think these figures are extremely encouraging.

I understand that it seems an extraordinary solution to the problem of Islam to work towards disbanding it, and I'm aware of important Muslim reformers who want to reinterpret Islamic texts as an alternative to disbanding the religion.

While I admire the good intentions and courage of Muslim reformers, Islam's own accepted texts tell of such horrendous actions of Muhammad, and of such blatant self-interest, that I actually do believe that most Muslims will not tolerate Muhammad's Islam when they know what it stands for. Also, given the difficulty of "reinterpreting" so many verses of the Qur'an, and so many accepted hadiths, I think that disbanding the religion is actually more practical than reforming it.

For someone reading this who hasn't had the opportunity to read much of Islam's texts, I understand your incredulity. But consider, these texts actually explicitly describe Muhammad as a rapist. This has lead to teachings of rape, detailed for example in the book of ex-PLO terrorist Mr.Walid Shoebat - 'Why I Left Jihad' -where he writes of "our Nazi education", and (on p 32):

"I remember students used to ask our teacher, Na’eem Ayyad, during our Islamic studies in Bethlehem High School, if it were permitted for Muslims to rape the Jewish women after we defeated them. His response was "The women captured in battle have no choice in this matter, they are concubines and they need to obey their masters, having sex with slave captives is not a matter of choice for slaves." He said that sexual intercourse with Jewish captives does not have to be consensual.'

Islam's own texts also describe Muhammad as an enslaver of innocent men, women and children, a murderer, a torturer of people he knew to be innocent, a thief, a committed liar, and at 53 years of age, someone who pursued a 6 year old girl for "marriage". I have yet to meet a Muslim who knows much (or any) of this, nor one who isn't utterly shocked and appalled at being presented with the relevant texts.

Though I'm prepared to change my mind on any of my current views, I genuinely believe that a policy of education (e.g. through the preparation of viewer-friendly documentaries etc) - which adhered strictly to the use of Islam's own texts - would achieve much. And if required, the internet of course enables the circumvention of traditional media in getting a message across. I also think that much more widespread education about the Jewish heritage and history in Israel would be helpful in combating the ignorance that can result in anti-Semitism, but I've already gone on too long!
Best wishes, Jon

, Monday, December 1st

Constructive comments, including corrections, are welcome. Do not use this space for spam, publishing articles, self promotion, racism, anti-Zionist propaganda or character defamation. Inappropriate comments will be deleted. See our Comment policy for details. By posting here, you agree to the Comment policy.


Please take our reader survey!

Our Sites

Zionism News Net
Zionism-Israel Pages
Brave Zionism
Israël-Palestina.Info (Dutch & English)
Our Blogs
Israel News
IMO Blog - Israël & Midden-Oosten (NL)
Israel Like this, as if
Zionism News Net
Israel & Palestijnen Nieuws Blog
Israël in de Media

Blog Roll:
Adam Holland
Blue Truth
CIF Watch
Contentious Centrist
Dutchblog Israel (NL/EN)
Harry's Place
Ignoble Experiment
Irene Lancaster's Diary
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Jeff Weintraub Commentaries and controversies
Jewish Issues Watchdog Meretz USA Weblog
Meryl Yourish
Middle East Analysis
MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log
Modernity Blog
Pro Israel Bay Bloggers
Point of no return
Simply Jews
Something Something
Tempting Topical Topics
The Augean Stables
Unplugged Mike
Oy Bay! San Francisco Bay Area Jews
Vital Perspective
Israel Mon Amour
Liberty & Justice
On the Contrary
Magdeburger Chossid
Tulip - Israeli-Palestinian Trade Union Assoc.
Southern Wolf
Sharona's Week
Sanda & Israel
Fresno Zionism
Anti-Racist Blog
ZOTW's Zionism and Israel News
Zionism On The Web News
ZOTW's Blogs
Christian Attitudes
Dr Ginosar Recalls
Questions: Zionism anti-Zionism Israel & Palestine
Liberal for Israel

A Jew with a view
Realistic Dove
Christians Standing With Israel - Blog
SEO for Everyone
Vision to Reality: The Reut Blog
Calev's Blog
Candidly speaking from Jerusalem
Dvar Dea
Ray Cook
Shimshon 9

Mark Halawa

This link space is 4 your blog - contact us!

Other Web sites and pages:

PeaceWatch Middle East Commentary Christians Standing With Israel
Zionism On the Web
Guide to Middle East, Zionism
Z-Word blog
Labor Zionism
Le Grand Mufti Husseini
The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini
ZNN - Zionism News Network Middle East
Euston Manifesto
Jewish Blogging
Peace With Realism
Israel Facts (NL)
Space Shuttle Blog
Love Poems
At Zionism On the Web
Articles on Zionism
Anti-Zionism Information Center
Academic boycott of Israel Resource Center
The anti-Israel Hackers
Antisemitism Information Center
Zionism Israel and Apartheid
Middle East, Peace and War
The Palestine state
ZOTW Expert Search
ZOTW Forum

Judaica: Jewish Gifts:

RSS V 1.0

RSS V 2.0

Home » Archives » November 2008 » Zionist Perspective: Terror Nightmare in Mumbai

[Previous entry: "What Israeli and American Jews don't get"] [Next entry: "Drama in Sderot: Qassam attack, first person"]

Help us improve - Please click here to take our reader survey

All entries copyright by the authors and or Zionism-Israel Information Center. Please forward materials by e-mail with URLS. Other uses by permission only.